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| Giattino to Republicans: Democratic Mayor, allies, have"turned Reform into their own mutated version" |
Interesting.
The Giattino campaign, who recently scolded Ravi Bhalla for his "divisive" mailers sent to Hoboken Democrats, has sent a "divisive" letter to Hoboken Republicans.
If Bhalla was wrong to lobby Democrats, is Giattino wrong to lobby Republicans?
No. Neither are wrong.
It is as fair for Bhalla, a progressive Democrat to campaign to local Dems, as it is for Giattino, supporter of the Republican who wants to defund Planned Parenthood, John Kasich, to try to win Republican votes.
Wheareas Republican mayoral candidate Karen Nason wrote directly to local Republicans, Giattino uses a proxy, Republican supporter Sue Pregibon.
Is the Giattino letter any less divisive than Bhalla's ad targeted to Democrats?
Let's put it this way, they are different.
The difference is the Bhalla's ads only mention Trump; his ads do not name any Hoboken Republican candidates. His ads remind voters that Trump's national policies affect Hoboken residents. He also promises that a Mayor Bhalla will stick up for local residents against Trump policies which hurt them, be it an immigration ban or LGBTQ rights to serve in our military.
But, the Giattino letter is a direct attack on Democratic opponents by name. She attacks Mayor Zimmer, her allies, Ravi Bhalla and virtually anyone who supports them as a "mutant version" of Reform.
Yes, the Giattino letter to fellow Republicans accuses the Democratic mayor Zimmer of "turning Reform into their own mutated version.... without respect for individuals, transparency or integrity."
Really?
It doesn't sound like Giattino has much respect for individuals who prefer Ravi Bhalla for mayor, and who think he will make a better chief executive of Hoboken. It doesn't sound like Giattino has much respect for individuals who like and appreciate Mayor Zimmer.
Does liking the Mayor make us mutants?
Meanwhile, Hoboken mayoral candidate Karen Nason, who is definitely not a mutant, doesn't hide behind proxies to speak about her Republican values. Yesterday she sent me this statement about the Giattino letter to Republicans.
KAREN NASON REACTS TO GIATTINO LETTER TO REPUBLICANS
"I am astounded at the content of this mailer. In a letter many claim was sent at Jen Giattino's behest, an untold number of registered Hoboken Republicans received a counter-factual based case supposedly authored by Sue Pregibon urging Republicans to vote for Giattino and her slate of Democrats. The reality that Giattino has been opaque about her Republican, conservative, or libertarian views and has engaged in public back pedaling and apologizing for being a Republican was ignored by the likely ghost authored campaign letter.
The author of the letter states that she is a local "Republican, Libertarian and Independent Thinker," yet one should ask what is Libertarian or Republican about the candidate she is urging others to consider. From Giattino's support for the Washington Street destruction plan that has and will continue to hurt small business unless amended, raising the bonding up to $180 million and soon possibly up to over $200 million, the pushing of an anti-car social engineering agenda, and her support for the abuse of eminent domain - the facts show not only is Giattino not actually a Republican nor a Libertarian, but she is also unfit to be Mayor.
Giattino has followed Mayor Zimmer and worked with her friend Ravi Bhalla to create each one of these progressive projects that make life difficult, raise the cost of living, and trample on our individual rights.
Giattino has also denied any participation in the "Suez $8.2 million cover up” (as she calls it) by Mayor Zimmer.
Talk about lack of integrity. Giattino's entire career in this political machine was because of the support given her by Mayor Zimmer. Giattino's denial of any knowledge as to this Suez cover up is impossible to believe given her position on Council and her close affiliation Mayor Zimmer.
Giattino has repaid Mayor Zimmer, who gave her amazing opportunities, by throwing her under the bus.
Giattino has repaid Mayor Zimmer, who gave her amazing opportunities, by throwing her under the bus.
The transparency Sue Pregibon talks about in her letter is not Giattino who has campaigned in denial about being Republican, denial about who she voted for, and whined that no one needs to know who she voted for as it is personal. Well, running for Mayor I think people deserve to know. The fact is that Giattino did not say from the start that she voted for Gary Johnson, who was Governor of New Mexico and a Libertarian, as a write-in candidate. She came up with that absurd fiction much later to save herself from being labeled as a Republican.
I am Karen Nason, the Mayoral Candidate who was the first to declare and the only one to do so before Mayor Zimmer announced she would not run again. I have never run away from my affiliation. I am proud to be a Republican."
DisinJenuous.
ReplyDeleteso incredibly DisinJenuous. a bit nauseating as well. also, i love when rich republicans pretend to be libertarians. kinda like champagne socialists.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know what was meant by the "false accusations of hatred and discrimination in Hoboken"? She ran out of space before she was able to list them so now we'll just have to take her word for it.
ReplyDeleteUm, in case you haven't read our Team GiaFusco Reform Resistance Corporate Website, Unelectable has plans to remove the Columbus statue from the park. He doesn't even care that it's a county park!
DeleteThat's the kind of guy we're telling everyone Unelectable is. He sounds pretty hateful to me.
Let's also remember that middle class white people calmly discuss principled differences. Brown people in turbans, on the other hand, spread hate. Like removing the Columbus statue from a county park. How much more proof do you need? Cause we can make more if that will help. We're a full service operation.
Team GiaFusco: Good guys spreading hate to keep bad guys from doing it.
Calling out real bullshit here!!! Mayor Zimmerman would NEVER have told "Jen" that she chose Ravi over her because she was a Republican. Wow, what an out and out lie!
ReplyDeleteDid you ask the Mayor if she said that? If she were to give you an honest answer, it would be "yes" - but, I'd love to hear what she would say if you asked her directly.
DeleteThat's what a court calls "hearsay" - inadmissible. Exactly why a third party should not be writing "what the mayor told Jen." Jen is the one who has the standing to talk about what the mayor told her, not a third party--and a campaign partisan at that. Which raises the question why Jen didn't write this herself? It seems to be another example of distancing herself from her Republican membership for political purposes. Not courageous.
Delete#Mutants4Bhalla #MutantReformer #MutantsRule
I sincerely doubt the Mayor picked Ravi because he's a Democrat. Mayor Zimmer knows the job of being Mayor and has worked with both Ravi and Jen for years.
DeleteI think Mayor Zimmer had substantial reasons for picking Ravi over any other interested party, but hey if Jen and Indie need it to be something superficial to soothe themselves who am I to take that binky away.
However the need for it to be party rather qualifications is kinda sad and pathetic and speaks more to their character than anything else.
I've been stewing about IndieCom's obnoxious post since last night and just have to respond by saying that...I, unlike you, IndieCom, know Mayor Zimmer very well. I've had several conversations with her over the years about a variety of subjects. I know the Mayor to be an upstanding, honorable person of great integrity. There is no way that she would ever say that she was not recommending "Jen"Giattino as a worthy successor because "Jen" was a Republican. Mayor Zimmer simply does not think in those terms. She is deeply committed to ensuring that Hoboken continues to progress out of dark old days of corruption that preceded her administration by over 30 years, and avoid the continued grasp of the unsavory and rapacious moves of real estate developers. The reason that Mayor Zimmer did not support "Jen" is very simple... she simply thought that Ravi, not Jen, had the mettle (i.e., what it takes) to run the City of Hoboken.
DeleteJen wants to establish herself in state-level Republican circles to position herself for higher office. If she's trying to keep a lid on this, it's the worst-kept secret in Hoboken since where Pupie got his nickname.
ReplyDeleteThere's also absolutely nothing wrong with planning long-term career goals, in politics or any other field. Wanting to be mayor with an eye on something at the state or national level is no different than wanting to be a director at a private company with an eye on eventually getting the corner office, a military officer hoping to eventually become a general, a real estate investor hoping to eventually build a development company. Ambition is a natural trait for those prone to accomplishment, and a reliable incentive to do a job as well as possible to earn the coveted promotion.
The problem is, of course, that pursuing the mayor's office with the longer-term goal of eventually seeking -- or Sikhing, as one of their operatives likes to put it in a not-accidental nod to the real undercurrent of their alarmingly consistent campaign theme -- a higher position is precisely the accusation the Giattino team has leveled against Bhalla. The argument, apparently, being that having the ambition to eventually want to be promoted is a disqualifier rather than an assurance of commitment to exceptional performance. Except not for Jen. For Jen, it's perfectly fine.
Ambition isn't the problem. It's the hypocrisy, stupid.
Higher office? Surely you jest. She really must have inhaled too much horse manure to believe that one.
DeleteAnother Democratic committee person, Jinny Ko, has come out endorsing Jen. She and Tiffanie need to resign their posts.
DeleteI agree re: Tiffanie and others on the Dem Committee resigning their posts. This practice is making a mockery of the local Democratic Committee. What kind of Democratic Committee endorses Republicans, even in a non-partisan election? It's ridiculous.
DeleteYes, All Hoboken, and it's naive to think that local elections are non-partisan. Every Republican in federal or state government started out at a local level, and there's no need to give them any traction in their careers. Jen herself has said that she supported Kasich, but won't say whether she voted for Trump. That says all you need to know. Cunningham is a Republican pretending to be a Democrat, Fisher is the head of the Democratic Committee. Liars and hypocrites.
DeleteI think that under any other circumstances the Dem Committee Members supporting republicans in non-partisan elections would be fine, coalition building even! It's the fact that they are supporting Jen, in what is looking like a spite filled campaign, that is the issue.
DeleteIf the race were exactly the same as it is now, except that Ravi were running as republican [with the facts being that he was picked by Mayor Zimmer as her successor, and Jen was running as a democrat] and democratic committee members supported him, I don't think people would be up in arms.
I disagree, Snoopy. Ravi wasn't "hand picked". The Mayor had every right to name her preferred successor, which helped fill a void of understanding, but made all the other kids at the table jealous. Boo hoo. And party affiliation is a very big thing for me and everyone I know in town. Jenny Ko and Tiffanie Fisher can support whomever they wish, but when they cross that line, they should resign their posts, especially when the Republican party has become the disastrous shit show that it is.
DeleteDemocrats supporting Republican reformers in Hudson County has precedent and arguably meritorious outcome. Bret Schundler, a deeply conservative Republican, won the Jersey City special election in 1992 - yes, the year Bill Clinton carried the Democrat in virtually every other election in the region by significant margins - after Gerry McCann got jailed for financial fraud and voters off all stripes were fed up with the Hague-era corruption legacy. I believe the closest runner-up in that race was Lou Manzo, who ran again in the 2004 special election to replace the late Glenn Cunningham (a reformer whose beef with Menendez spawned the political career of Steve Fulop). One of Manzo's outspoken supporters in that race was a fresh face on the local political scene named Peter Cammarano. If memory serves, Cammarano may have even been Manzo's campaign counsel through the Angelo Genova firm.
DeleteThat cesspool was enough to allow Schundler to slip through and then win a full term the following year. Say what you will on his stances on many issues - and this liberal Democrat disagreed with him on virtually everything from a national standpoint - he did a good job steering Jersey City away from business-as-usual buddy systems and crookery and played an important role in putting it on the map as a major NJ hub with a thriving high-end business community. If you ask me - again, liberal Democrat here - had Schundler won he governor's race in 2001 (I voted for him), NJ would have been spared the McGreevey disaster, which led directly to the Corzine disaster, which led directly to the Christie disaster. Again, can't stand the guy's position on many things - schools, in particular - but when it came to getting down to business, he did the job, and nitpick though one may over this or that, he was a good mayor and would have made a good governor IMO.
All that said, Jen Giattino is no Bret Schundler. I could go on at length about her complete and utter inability to even begin to claim preparedness to step up to the plate the way Schundler did, but the issue at hand here is, when is it ok for Democratic Committee members to support Republicans in a nonpartisan municipal race.
I don't know what stance the Jersey City Democrats took in 1992 and 93 - I assume they did not support Schundler - but I do know that Schundler did not campaign as a Republican, nor did he attack any of his opponents for campaigning as Democrats. The issue here, as I see it, is that the Giattino campaign and its various mouthpieces have made a loud and consistent issue of Ravi flaunting his Democratic ideals, claiming it to be inappropriate pandering in a nonpartisan election, presumably because it highlights her electoral disadvantages in an overwhelmingly Democratic community. They've done this while hypocritically playing up her Republican credentials to the audience with whom that resonates, and seeking to position her within state Republican networks for support.
Also of note - Dawn Zimmer is no Gerry McCann (that's a compliment, though McCann is not without his enduring fan base). The circumstances surrounding this election in no way resemble the Jersey City of 1992, when surviving Hague operatives still lurked City Hall. Yet the Giattino campaign has artificially sought to create a "Reform Resistance" movement with the false narrative that Hoboken remains a deeply corrupt city that needs to a "Reform Reboot" by the "Real Reformers."
DeleteI dare say Giattino, Fisher and many others in their ranks barely know what a truly corrupt Hudson County city looks like, and certainly weren't around in elections when people got jaws broken for campaigning for the Reform candidate in the wrong place at the wrong time.
All of that said, I agree with snoopy that there are circumstances under which it can be appropriate or even advisable for Democrats to support Republicans in nonpartisan municipal elections. What makes Fisher's conduct inappropriate for the Democratic Committee chair is in serving as de facto campaign manager for a Republican who's pretending not to be running as a Republican while making a campaign issue out of a Democrat running explicitly as a Democrat. She needs to take stock of these facts and resign, either from the Dem Committee or this most disinJenuous of campaigns.
reformbaseball- you made my point much clearer than I could have when you said: "What makes Fisher's conduct inappropriate for the Democratic Committee chair is in serving as de facto campaign manager for a Republican who's pretending not to be running as a Republican while making a campaign issue out of a Democrat running explicitly as a Democrat. She needs to take stock of these facts and resign, either from the Dem Committee or this most disinJenuous of campaigns".
DeleteCircumstances being different (honest campaign for one thing) and people might not care as much.
Oracle: Can you tell me the difference between "hand picked" and "nam[ing] her preferred successor"? I would posit it's the same thing, and neither term is being used as a pejorative term.
I think if you dig deeper, you can find some similarities to the 92 JC election. In both, you had a very popular mayor unexpectedly not running for reelection (for very different reasons) leading to an unusually large number of candidates and political bases being fractured -- including those of the popular mayor. If I remember correctly, there were somewhere between 15 and 20 candidates (including both Manzo brothers with their similar slogans). And pretty sure the order of finish was Schundler, L. Manzo, Roman, Joe Charles and then Willie Flood. Manzo was backed by the HCDO (although they were completely split), Roman by the teachers (which was odd since Councilwoman Flood also teacher) and a chunk of the HCDO who despised Manzo, and Sen. Charles and Councilwoman Flood split the African American vote. Plus you had some of the McCann people working for Manzo's brother as a pure spoiler because they hated Lou. A bizarre/fun election to volunteer in (for Flood) and a sign I am getting very, very old that it was 25 years ago (pretty sure Manzo attacked someone with a lead pipe --it escalated quickly). Manzo ran again in the next election a few months later (if I recall, with a lot of funding from Ray Lesniak and the state party because needed JC for the gubernatorial election ) and his entire campaign platform was pretty much "Vote Democratic! Don't vote for the evil Reagan-Bush Republican" in a non-partisan race. Schundler ran on a ticket mixed with Dems and Reps and a "non-partisan" platform, but did not distance himself from the state/national Republicans (in fact inviting Republican guv candidates to come to JC to campaign). Schundler won with like 60-70% of the votes.
DeleteAll correct, including the lead pipe incident. Surreal. I believe Steve Lipski had a similar incident years later if I'm not mistaken.
DeleteI'd liken the broader election dynamic of that one more closely to Hoboken's 2009 special, in which an indicted mayor led to a complete free-for-all (remember Everton Wilson? Or, for that matter, Nathan Brinkman, a far more plausible Schundler torch-bearer than Giattino).
I can't believe you worked for Flood. I always liked her and recall she harnessed a fair amount of the Glenn Cunningham legacy. But seeing her in action, I always got the feeling she wasn't quite up to the job (rumored to sometimes ask colleagues to explain real basic fundamentals of what they were voting on). Heart in the right place though.
Family friend as she taught with my mother in JC in the 70s. worked is too strong of a word as I was just a low level vol stuffing envelopes and doing door to door. She had a huge heart and was in it for the right reasons. She developed Alzheimers early, so that may have been some of the reasons for the questions on fundamentals.
DeleteDid Sue get the "independent thinkers" mailing list as well? Some "independent" thinker might just say something against Trump? Nope, just going along party lines and doing a great job of mentioning Dawn and Ravi almost as much as Jenn (wait is Jenn still running? #4thplacejenn).
ReplyDeleteIt's telling that this letter doesn't provide a single rationale for Giattino's candidacy other than some pablum about transparency, integrity a d fiscal responsibility - slogans without a single example of how this slogans apply in any way to Giattino more than any other candidate.
ReplyDeleteThere are real points of differentiation among the candidates. We should be talking about all of them. One obvious point of differentiation is the Giattino and Nason are Republicans, and Bhalla, Romano, DeFusco and Bautista are Democrats.
The candidates all have different educational and employment backgrounds, very different perspectives on the Zimmer administration's policies etc.
We should be talking about all of these things, not attacking candidates for doing what all the candidates ought to be doing which is talking about them.
Giattino is a Republican with a history of reluctance to speak out against the republican party line on "national" or state issues.
Bhalla is a Democrat with a long history of speaking out on progressive issues, especially relating to social justice.
Voters may choose one or the other but it is a distinction many voters care about and have a right to have honestly discussed.
Based on her behavior recently, public comments and such, pretty sure she has proven she is not transparent, does not have integrity and is not financially aware or responsible. Nice slogans but history suggests she is a fail on all three metrics. And yes, there is no discernible reason why anyone should support her.
DeleteShe's Republican in all the ways you like and none of the ways you don't.
DeleteSo rather than staking out positions and all that, use this simple approach.
If there's something the Republicans are doing that you like - she's for that.
If there's something the Republicans are doing that you don't like - she's against that.
I think you'll like some of our issue-straddling positions, which really speak to the need to offer Change that's Changey.
For instance, as John Kasich fans, we want to defund Planned Parenthood. But we want to do in the most pro-choice way possible! We want to curb the negotiating power of unions - but in a very pro-labor manner! Cut social security, but pose with seniors early and often! And I think we all agree that climate change may be real, but the EPA shouldn't do anything about it.
Now that's Change that's Changey! Everyone wins and no one was offended!
What's not to like? Because we'll happily eliminate any parts anyone doesn't like.
Speaking about issues is nice. I'd rather see what the candidates have accomplished.
DeleteRomano, for example, has increased the county tax levy on Hoboken taxpayer's bills for years. That's an accomplishment! I can't wait to hear how he will parlay that into an increase in city taxes!
DeFusco is self-serving and has flip-flopped on issues, he's a regular John Kerry in that regard. If he makes it to city hall, I guess we can expect him to say whatever the listener wants to hear, but to act in a self-serving manner at all times.
Jen has nothing to show for her time on the council, if she did that would be in her mailers.
Bhalla - has printed up his accomplishments, his good works/actions speak for themselves.
#Mostly Trusted!
ReplyDelete#Change That's Changey!
I hear Propeller McVictim didn't like my quip yesterday about the celibacy contest in which Brice, Gardiner, Fallick and Soares are in a dead heat. Seems like McPhony is quite the arbiter of Internet decency!
ReplyDeleteGuess it must be some OTHER person who hates FAP who didn't get the McVictim memo:
"PuckerUpPrig
October 6, 2017 at 7:57 pm
Shut up Forde ( I refuse to invest in Hoboken)
Go buy some new shirts
Purple and Red business shirts went out in the 80’s
Duran Duran called they want their costumes back
Go play board games with high school kids"
it is interesting how one of the more deceptive posters thinks he is the arbiter of the truth and decency online. He really needs to look in the mirror before criticizing anyone.
DeletePropeller McVictim, regularly smears others online by name- in a very creepy and stalkerish way. It's no surprise his victims return fire.
DeleteI'm sure you're wrong. Propeller assured me yesterday that he never posts over there. Why would he lie about a thing like that?
DeleteIt is in the nature of a scorpion to sting and for a propeller to spin. I don't trust people who reflexively feel the need to spin everything.
DeleteWhile the hypocrisy of McVictim compaining about on line smears is pretty striking I personally think people should hold themselves to a higher standard than McVictim and avoid speculating about people's sex lives.
ReplyDeleteThat said it was pretty funny, something that can't really be said about the Giant ventures into what he tries to pass off as politically incorrect satire.
I'd argue some of the above make their sex lives relevant to the election when they turn their blogs into what can be delicately described as expressions of longing for Giattino, but I take your point.
DeleteI agree with you, numbers.
DeleteSome truly crude, vile, deviant stuff has been posted-- and that's just on MSV-- allegedly satirical, but obscene, sexist and offensive... for example, an effigy of yours truly as a blow-up sex toy (labeled "Nancy")servicing the mayor's hubby (deviant photoshop by public official, NHSA Commissioner Kurt Gardiner) that the discourse bar is already so low, it's a matter of self-regulation. No, I don't really want that stuff here, so hope folks leave that topic alone.
As a sidebar, it seems a certain internet troll has appropriated someone else's screenname on HCV (lindalou) to attack himself so that he can blame the real lindalou for what he himself wrote. He even made a really nasty reference to his own accident with a van presumably so he can show his own post around as "proof" of lindalou's nastiness.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a person who's seasoned at phony victinhood.
Delete