GA had a different topic today, until I saw the John Heinis piece in Hudson County View.
2nd Ward Councilwoman Tiffanie Fisher told Heinis: “Jen Giattino is a model citizen and public servant, a progressive Republican and a good person. She overlaps more than less with both Mayor Zimmer and Ravi, who are also my friends. And not that anyone has a right to know who she, or any of us voted for, she did not vote for Trump.”
Phew, that does matter to me (voting for Trump).
It may not matter to you, especially if you voted for the Tangerine Caligula! But remember, I'm the gal who created this- and a lot more where that came from.
I agree with Tiffanie; my 6th Ward Councilwoman is a model citizen, a fine person, a kind person.
I disagree with Tiffanie- I believe that voters do have a right to know who and what their elected officials vote for because it lets the public know what kind of people they believe merit the public trust. A candidate's voting record speaks to the values and character of the candidate- to the voter. I recall (1994?) being impressed that NYC Mayor Giuliani crossed party lines to endorse Mario Cuomo for Governor, over Senator 'Pothole' Al D'Amato. That hardly ever happens.
So, like it or not, it is an issue for some- and what it means to Hoboken if a historically Democratic city runs a Republican.
The discussion is not an "attack" it is a discussion.
Whether or not folks like it, Hoboken Democrats are having this discussion. GA got put on a large email distribution of Reformers yesterday- I only knew one person- and this was on people's minds. They discussed Trump.
Anyway, wondering what readers think. I would like folks to continue registering so that you can share your thoughts here.
GA will not allow personal attacks on Jen or Ravi. Save those attacks for the Dark Side.
Do you think that voters have a right to know a candidate's voting record?
Thanks Nancy. I agree that not voting for Trump matters. I also agree that we should refrain from personal attacks and stick to substantive issues.
ReplyDeleteIn that spirit, on the issues would Jen advocate for Hoboken Pubic Schools against the DeVoss/Trump cuts to public education and funneling of dollars to private, but state supported, charter schools? It's a local issue where her party has one stance that are contrary to the interests of our public school children in Hoboken. Where would Jen be on the desire to repeal Obamacare instead of fixing it resulting in millions without access to health insurance --- I'm assuming that includes Hoboken residents. What would Jen do if her party wanted to take away resilience support to prepare for another storm (Rebuild by Design)?
Also, how would Jen work with potential Governor Murphy if she endorses her friend who is running against him? It's good she did not vote for Trump, that's a values question for me. That said, the Republicans have adopted his agenda and parts of it practically impact us. Real world governing questions, deserve answers. And Tiffanie!? Still shaking my head. What are you thinking? Why did we elect you Chair? Did you not think this through. I feel like I'm watching John Kerry say, "I was against the war before I was for it." Poor policy choice and a conflict of interest in my opinion.
Thanks. This may be a footnote to the above. Some folks on the email I was on yesterday (45 people) wanted to know about the "Trump vote" issue. Stupid as it may sound, I wanted to be fair so asked BOTH Jen and Ravi. I asked: "Did you vote for Trump in the general?" Ravi said, "No, not in a million years." Jen was upset with the question. Thinks a vote is a personal matter. I explained my position, that one gives up privacy when they run for office. Hey, reasonable people can disagree.
DeleteHere's my thought as a registered independent: I don't care who they vote for on national issues. I care about what they've done on local issues/how they've voted locally.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like Trump or Hillary, they were both deeply flawed and terrible choices for different reasons. If I held people's votes on national issues against them, then I couldn't vote for anyone who voted for either of the two worst candidates in my lifetime. That really limits the playing field. Also, the state and county level democrats have been part of the problem for a long time (overtaxing the crap out of Hoboken for starters). So by the logic of your article, GA, it's still better to vote for one of them than a republican because the republican may have voted for Trump.
I think bringing national politics into a local election is a huge mistake. Or is it yuuuuuge? :)
As for personal attacks, I don't care for them either.
Well snoopster, I said it "matters". It wouldn't necessarily be decisive.
DeleteFor example, let's say a voter's family was kidnapped, tied to a railroad track (the old-fashioned kind-no third rail), and the voter was placed in one of those Tower of London thingies... an "Iron Maiden" I believe it's called. And let's say while the voter was being squeezed inside the Iron Maiden, two hot pokers were being shoved into his/her eyeballs... under THOSE circumstances, a Trump vote could be forgiven.
See? I told you!
ROFL
DeleteHere's a scenario: The race comes down to Stick or Jen. It gets out Jen DID vote for Trump. Stick didn't, he's a real democrat.
DeleteNow who do you vote for? I am going out on a limb and saying Jen.
Sorry, final post for now: I still think Ravi is the right choice, but it's not because Jen is a republican who might like the orange one.
DeleteBicycle guy.
Delete@Snoopy, as others have pointed out, this issue is that most "national" issues DO have a local implication and impact. Schools, health care, climate change, etc. are all national issues that will be impacted (many say adversely) if the Trump administration gets their way. Our local schools will be impacted DoE head Betty DeVos gets her way, our flood protection efforts will be impacted if EPA head Scott Pruitt cuts funding...heck, MY healthcare coverage will be impacted if Obamacare is repealed. Can't really separate the two.
Delete@4:50 - I disagree. Her local votes & budgetary matters are far more important than some tie to the national party that 45 "more important" reformers feel is of the utmost of importance.
DeleteI used quotes because no one is saying these 45 are "more important", but from the text of the posts regarding Jen, there's definitely some self-importance being assigned by those on the email. Or maybe I'm cranky because I wasn't included. Who knows?
Someone mentioned we have to unite. I agree. I'm with Ravi, but I won't stand by and let someone's party affiliation be used as the rationale to vote against them. It's b.s. and never mattered until there was a question about successorship to Zimmer.
Here's my list against Jen in a more powerful position like mayor:
No individual accomplishments.
She's a realtor.
She's late to the game.
I have seen no evidence of her ability to coral the herd.
Ravi has obstacles to overcome too, but a very popular mayor has endorsed him.
Snoopy dear, no person is more important than another. There is no special significance to being on the email. Don't be cranky!
DeleteThen we agree to disagree, Snoopy. How a local Republican office holder acts and votes on local issues is very important, of course. But a person registers as a member of a national party because they support the national programs of that party. Hence, a Republican is also in support of GOP national programs that have local impact. If that isn't the case, then why not just register as an independent? Why would a person register as a member of the GOP if they don't support the national GOP agenda? Makes no sense.
Delete@5:48pm 6/26
DeleteMost of my republican friends (even the rabid Trump supporters) would agree Trump is no republican/member of the GOP. He's an outsider with dumb ideas who managed to get elected despite being the most awful human being to run for president in a long time.
snoopy, my comments have nothing to do with trump, he's irrelevant to my point i'm taking about the GOP agenda that's been on track for the past 8-16 years (or more).
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Delete@9:07pm - That would be more believable if anyone had objected to Jen being a republican (or Peter for that matter) before Trump. Their local voting record while on the counsel is pretty impeccable. So I'm not buying this sudden problem with her national party affiliation as having existed for the past 8-16 years.
DeleteTiffanie is now saying that her friend, Jen Giattino, didn't vote for Trump. But she didn't say why she believes this: did Jen Giattino tell her this explicitly ("I did not vote for Trump."), or is Tiffanie saying "Jen did not vote for Trump" based on her own intuition and hopes regarding her friend?
ReplyDeleteIf Jen Giattino is now saying to Tiffanie that she did not vote for Trump, that's new. As recently as yesterday, in a telephone conversation with GA that was reported on an email chain to about 45 people, Jen refused to state who she voted for, instead saying that it was private. Why won't she say this now publicly, and directly? And why did she refuse to answer a direct question yesterday? (For what it's worth, until Tiffanie made her recent statement, nobody seemed to be able to recall that Jen ever said, specifically, that she did not vote for Trump.)
My guess- Jen doesn't want to alienate Republicans, either for this election or future elections. Anything said by a third party (Tiffanie), especially if said in such an oblique way, can later be disclaimed if necessary. Or, she actually did vote for Trump and won't lie about it.
Thank you for registering, Hoboken Dem!
DeleteYou're welcome!
DeleteWas also just thinking more about Tiffanie's quoted remarks. She wasn't specific about *when* (she claims, without support or explanation) Jen did not support Trump. Was she referring to November? Or, was she just referring to the primary? If she was referring only to the primary, Tiffanie was saying something that was literally true but, at the same time, misleading, because Jen's primary vote is not really the question anybody has. Tiffanie's remarks were not specific in saying that Jen did not vote for Trump *last November*.
I don't want to presume the "literally true, but misleading" interpretation of Tiffanie's remarks, but since Jen has, apparently, refused to herself answer your or anyone else's questions about who she voted for last November, but was very public as a Kasich primary supporter, it seems to be the most logical interpretation of the facts available.
If Jen has so many progressive positions and beliefs, maybe she should be Democrat! ;)
ReplyDeleteSeriously
DeleteI found then phrase "Progressive Republican" in Tiffanie's message to be the curious. In one phrase she found a way to both alienate Jen's Republican friends AND local Democrats by making up a phrase not attributable to Republicans to justify her support of one. I'm not sure that phrase has ever been used other than in this message to twist, turn, contort to a desired outcome.
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ReplyDeleteNobody cared about Jen's Republican status all these years- and they ALL knew- until she DARED to speak out against a pre-ordained and obviously pre-planned mayoral candidate and his now turned negative roll out.
ReplyDelete25 plus endorsements all ready to go, and now one really nasty e-mail attack on Jen that was sent to Zimmer herself and then fwd'd by her to others. Very Mayoral.... She spends more time asking for input on a tree planting than the next Mayor.
House O'Tony- Now that you're in bed with the DeFusco House O'Thieves campaign, your bedfellows Peter B. and Mike R. Will be the first to whack Reform if our candidate is a GOP member. You win today's prize for "Most Disingenuous Post."
ReplyDeleteReformers have reached no conclusion, we are talking to each other-- this is how democracy works. We are having an adult discussion about the implications to our election of one possible candidate. Your candidate is Mike DeFusco and you do not have Reform''s best interest at heart.
Shoo fly.
So, everyone now knows this is a site ( like Hoboken 411 ) where you will out people for expressing opinions whether you have guessed correctly or not
ReplyDeleteSo you people should come here with caution knowing someone could possiblt be exposed. That's really so nice
@House, here's the thing: no one cares what you think. What goes around comes around, and that's what you get for being trollish. Go start your own blog and yap all you want.
DeletePLEASE NOTE: this is not an attempt at censorship. This is just a group of people who are tired of your shit.
Tony will never start a blog because he doesn't have the courage of his own convictions. He only wants to skulk around on other people's blogs, under screen names, so he can be a lying prick. Like you say, we are tired of his shit.
Delete